Re: Banter Thread 8.0

[dkodgis]

Excellent, excellent advice! Pickpockets abound

[weatherwatchermom]

MERRY CHRISTMAS

[docstox12]

This is what I am reduced to looking for snow.A rail cam in Kearney Nebraska, ( yes it DOES accumulate).The camera shut down ,it got so covered with snow,LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akAEoyjS3XM

[CPcantmeasuresnow]

I'm not sure anyone predicted the second warmest December since records have been kept, which is since 1869, but that's what we're looking at.

Of course we won't' break December 2015's record which was 15 degrees above normal but this is our new climate. Don't let anyone tell you it evens out, it doesn't. Thirty year averages keep going up and we keep measuring against those ever increasing averages. Since 2015 we've had 28 different months make the top 10 warmest of all time and 1 month make it into the top 10 coldest. This isn't an IMBY thing it's all over the globe.


Rant done for now, except I'd like to tell the MJO and these non starter stratospheric warming events to shove it where the sun don't shine.

Merry Christmas weather family and a very happy, healthy and prosperous New Year.

[rb924119]

Snowfall averages also keep going up, CP

I hope everybody had a lovely Christmas with their families, and that Santa was good to you all! May 2024 bring us all good tidings and cheer, too!

[lglickman1]

Let's all hope we have something to look forward to in January and February,  otherwise we can always move to the rockies

[sroc4]

Not even a fantasy snow storm on any of the three major models.

[Carvin]

I really don’t see any hope until February I’m sorry to say but it will take a miracle to get anything before speaking for ny metro area

[sroc4]

I saw it CP...lol

[nutleyblizzard]

All this negative talk is starting to get ridiculous. We’re 6 days into winter for Christ’s sake. You would think it’s never going to snow again. Trust me it will . I’ve lived through the 1980’s.

[tomsriversnowstorm]

I really don’t get it. 1st off the one person is just using stats from Central Park. Many of us on the board don’t live at or near Central Park. So to use that as the measuring stick is silly. Second usually February tends to be our snowiest month. 3rd this is a strong El Niño. Most of. This years are back loaded winters.

quote="nutleyblizzard"]All this negative talk is starting to get ridiculous. We’re 6 days into winter for Christ’s sake. You would think it’s never going to snow again. Trust me it will . I’ve lived through the 1980’s. [/quote]

[docstox12]

All this negative talk is starting to get ridiculous. We’re 6 days into winter for Christ’s sake. You would think it’s never going to snow again. Trust me it will . I’ve lived through the 1980’s.

Also, March has been a productive month for snow in recent years.90 plus days of snow time on the books.I had posted a while back stats from 1965 where after a terrible December like this one has been, January was cold and snowy.Keep calm and carry on!

[dkodgis]

Is global warming going on? The facts say yes. Is it cyclical as in has it happened before?  Yes. Evidence says so on both accounts. Has mankind helped this time accelerate? If we are talking about emissions, yes! What’s good to do? Cut back on emissions and no one can agree on that. What else?  The ocean is burning, it is high in carbon monoxide vs. other times. The need to cooperate and enter a course of action…not within our reach yet if at all. I

[heehaw453]

I really don’t get it. 1st off the one person is just using stats from Central Park. Many of us on the board don’t live at or near Central Park. So to use that as the measuring stick is silly. Second usually February tends to be our snowiest month. 3rd this is a strong El Niño. Most of. This years are back loaded winters.

quote="nutleyblizzard"]All this negative talk is starting to get ridiculous. We’re 6 days into winter for Christ’s sake. You would think it’s never going to snow again. Trust me it will . I’ve lived through the 1980’s.

[/quote]


These are good points and feedback. I'm not analyzing enso state or anything other than the raw numbers. However, Central Park is a good representation imo of the local coastal plain.  I can run numbers for AC, new Brunswick, Trenton and they'll show similar results.

It's not without precedent, however the odds become dramatically reduced to achieve average or close to average snowfall for the coastal plain in cases where it takes until January to snow. AC in 2021-22 did recently defy that with a monster January and no snowfall prior to that.So we wait and see how it plays out.

[tomsriversnowstorm]

I tend to disagree. I have lived at the Jersey shore for over 40 years and we had many snowless decembers that had snowy January and February. In fact our climo does not support much snow before January.

I really don’t get it. 1st off the one person is just using stats from Central Park. Many of us on the board don’t live at or near Central Park. So to use that as the measuring stick is silly. Second usually February tends to be our snowiest month. 3rd this is a strong El Niño. Most of. This years are back loaded winters.

quote="nutleyblizzard"]All this negative talk is starting to get ridiculous. We’re 6 days into winter for Christ’s sake. You would think it’s never going to snow again. Trust me it will . I’ve lived through the 1980’s.

These are good points and feedback. I'm not analyzing enso state or anything other than the raw numbers. However, Central Park is a good representation imo of the local coastal plain.  I can run numbers for AC, new Brunswick, Trenton and they'll show similar results.

It's not without precedent, however the odds become dramatically reduced to achieve average or close to average snowfall for the coastal plain in cases where it takes until January to snow. AC in 2021-22 did recently defy that with a monster January and no snowfall prior to that.So we wait and see how it plays out. [/quote]

[tomsriversnowstorm]

However, data from other years does not really paint a picture anyway. Every year is different.
I also hope I am not coming off as disrespectful. You know more than me by a ton. I was stating what I observed.
quote="heehaw453"]

I really don’t get it. 1st off the one person is just using stats from Central Park. Many of us on the board don’t live at or near Central Park. So to use that as the measuring stick is silly. Second usually February tends to be our snowiest month. 3rd this is a strong El Niño. Most of. This years are back loaded winters.

quote="nutleyblizzard"]All this negative talk is starting to get ridiculous. We’re 6 days into winter for Christ’s sake. You would think it’s never going to snow again. Trust me it will . I’ve lived through the 1980’s.

[/quote]


These are good points and feedback. I'm not analyzing enso state or anything other than the raw numbers. However, Central Park is a good representation imo of the local coastal plain.  I can run numbers for AC, new Brunswick, Trenton and they'll show similar results.

It's not without precedent, however the odds become dramatically reduced to achieve average or close to average snowfall for the coastal plain in cases where it takes until January to snow. AC in 2021-22 did recently defy that with a monster January and no snowfall prior to that.So we wait and see how it plays out. [/quote]

[heehaw453]

I tend to disagree. I have lived at the Jersey shore for over 40 years and we had many snowless decembers that had snowy January and February. In fact our climo does not support much snow before January.

I really don’t get it. 1st off the one person is just using stats from Central Park. Many of us on the board don’t live at or near Central Park. So to use that as the measuring stick is silly. Second usually February tends to be our snowiest month. 3rd this is a strong El Niño. Most of. This years are back loaded winters.

quote="nutleyblizzard"]All this negative talk is starting to get ridiculous. We’re 6 days into winter for Christ’s sake. You would think it’s never going to snow again. Trust me it will . I’ve lived through the 1980’s.

These are good points and feedback. I'm not analyzing enso state or anything other than the raw numbers. However, Central Park is a good representation imo of the local coastal plain.  I can run numbers for AC, new Brunswick, Trenton and they'll show similar results.

It's not without precedent, however the odds become dramatically reduced to achieve average or close to average snowfall for the coastal plain in cases where it takes until January to snow. AC in 2021-22 did recently defy that with a monster January and no snowfall prior to that.So we wait and see how it plays out.

[/quote]

I too am familiar with the jersey shore climate. And its correct that the average snowfall before January is probably less than 4'' from ocean county down to Atlantic county. But ill take AC as there are numbers since the 1940s. Since 1940 34 times they have received at least 16'' of snow which is their historical average. Only 8 of those had no measurable snowfall before January. So essentially > 75% of those years failed to achieve the average. I don't have in your back yard results so your mileage may vary.

[tomsriversnowstorm]

I am in Toms River so we are definitely different than AC I get what your saying but there still many outlier years. I think it is silly to give up on winter because December has not had snow. We knew this would be a backloaded winter since this is a super nino. Also remember winter only started on the 21st. Look I hope I am right and we get snow. Sorry but I want you to be wrong.

I tend to disagree. I have lived at the Jersey shore for over 40 years and we had many snowless decembers that had snowy January and February. In fact our climo does not support much snow before January.

I really don’t get it. 1st off the one person is just using stats from Central Park. Many of us on the board don’t live at or near Central Park. So to use that as the measuring stick is silly. Second usually February tends to be our snowiest month. 3rd this is a strong El Niño. Most of. This years are back loaded winters.

quote="nutleyblizzard"]All this negative talk is starting to get ridiculous. We’re 6 days into winter for Christ’s sake. You would think it’s never going to snow again. Trust me it will . I’ve lived through the 1980’s.

These are good points and feedback. I'm not analyzing enso state or anything other than the raw numbers. However, Central Park is a good representation imo of the local coastal plain.  I can run numbers for AC, new Brunswick, Trenton and they'll show similar results.

It's not without precedent, however the odds become dramatically reduced to achieve average or close to average snowfall for the coastal plain in cases where it takes until January to snow. AC in 2021-22 did recently defy that with a monster January and no snowfall prior to that.So we wait and see how it plays out.

I too am familiar with the jersey shore climate. And its correct that the average snowfall before January is probably less than 4'' from ocean county down to Atlantic county. But ill take AC as there are numbers since the 1940s. Since 1940 34 times they have received at least 16'' of snow which is their historical average. Only 8 of those had no measurable snowfall before January.  So essentially > 75% of those years failed to achieve the average. I don't have in your back yard results so your mileage may vary. [/quote]

[CPcantmeasuresnow]

All this negative talk is starting to get ridiculous. We’re 6 days into winter for Christ’s sake. You would think it’s never going to snow again. Trust me it will . I’ve lived through the 1980’s.

The 1980's were nowhere near as mild as the winters of the 2000's. That's the huge difference everyone seems unable to grasp. There will still be seasons of above average snowfall but none of that has anything to do with these ridiculously mild top ten temperature months we keep having. The winter of 2015/16 one of the mildest ever, had normal snowfall in NYC, why because 28 inches fell from one storm and of course melted in less than a week because we can't sustain cold anymore.

I f that's your idea of winter we just have different definitions for it and that's probably from having lived in different eras and different areas. Above average snowfall with temperatures 4-6 degrees above what they were 30-40 years ago just ain't my idea of winter.

[rb924119]

From the Long Range Thread:

@tomsriversnowstorm: it is sad how many cannot just have a civil debate, even if neither one changes the other’s mind about it. That’s the entire point of science and the scientific method. Develop an idea, test that idea, and try to figure out any flaws or issues. If it stands up to the scrutiny, then it continues as theory or if proven fundamentally, law. If not, scratch it, rework it, and start the process of over. But in so many instances, we can’t even get to the testing phase because it gets essentially shut down. And this isn’t directed at only one side of any issue, so I don’t want people getting the wrong idea here. But as somebody who enjoys this science for what it is, and majesty of the system, testing various ideas in real time, seeing the results and continuing to learn an evolve, seeing such outright intellectual dishonesty like that is heart breaking.

@Irish: I absolutely do believe in climate change; I think it’s incorrect not to. Change is inherent to the system. What I disagree with, though, is the opinion that mankind is having any significant effect on it. I’m sure we have some effect, let’s be honest. But I think it’s minor in the grand scheme of things, and I have reasons for that. Even conceptually to me, the argument doesn’t make much sense. But, that doesn’t mean that I’m not open to the idea if something comes out that better explains the information that I have. And I think that’s where a lot of people, not necessarily on this forum, but generally, go off the rails. Their minds are completely made up, there is no intellectual curiosity about “the other side”, and if you challenge their beliefs, even with sound logic and data, they automatically dismiss it. And that’s where my disappointment lies.

[docstox12]

From the Long Range Thread:

@tomsriversnowstorm: it is sad how many cannot just have a civil debate, even if neither one changes the other’s mind about it. That’s the entire point of science and the scientific method. Develop an idea, test that idea, and try to figure out any flaws or issues. If it stands up to the scrutiny, then it continues as theory or if proven fundamentally, law. If not, scratch it, rework it, and start the process of over. But in so many instances, we can’t even get to the testing phase because it gets essentially shut down. And this isn’t directed at only one side of any issue, so I don’t want people getting the wrong idea here. But as somebody who enjoys this science for what it is, and majesty of the system, testing various ideas in real time, seeing the results and continuing to learn an evolve, seeing such outright intellectual dishonesty like that is heart breaking.

@Irish: I absolutely do believe in climate change; I think it’s incorrect not to. Change is inherent to the system. What I disagree with, though, is the opinion that mankind is having any significant effect on it. I’m sure we have some effect, let’s be honest. But I think it’s minor in the grand scheme of things, and I have reasons for that. Even conceptually to me, the argument doesn’t make much sense. But, that doesn’t mean that I’m not open to the idea if something comes out that better explains the information that I have. And I think that’s where a lot of people, not necessarily on this forum, but generally, go off the rails. Their minds are completely made up, there is no intellectual curiosity about “the other side”, and if you challenge their beliefs, even with sound logic and data, they automatically dismiss it. And that’s where my disappointment lies.

tomsriver and Irish hit the nail on the head for what I was thinking reading the posts on the long range thread.
Thank God for our Board where ideas can be discussed in a civil and respectful manner so each individual's feedback on a scientific issue can be freely posted.I want to thank all the long range crew, Frank,Doc, Mugs Algae, rb, heehaw and any other's I may have forgotten.You have all helped me learn a lot,When I joined the old Channel 7 Board 20 years ago, all I knew about this was a weather map on a tv news station with "H's" and "L's"  moving around.
As far as long range prediction, we have come a long way but more needs to be done IMO.I worked for a research lab in 1970 and 1971 part time doing research on Interferon, thought to be the miracle cure for cancer.The head of the lab told me something I never forgot.Scientists will try and fail 1000 times to get it right once.
Keep calm and carry on long range crew of NJ Strong!!

[heehaw453]

I am in Toms River so we are definitely different than AC I get what your saying but there still many outlier years. I think it is silly to give up on winter because December has not had snow. We knew this would be a backloaded winter since this is a super nino. Also remember winter only started on the 21st. Look I hope I am right and we get snow. Sorry but I want you to be wrong.

I tend to disagree. I have lived at the Jersey shore for over 40 years and we had many snowless decembers that had snowy January and February. In fact our climo does not support much snow before January.

I really don’t get it. 1st off the one person is just using stats from Central Park. Many of us on the board don’t live at or near Central Park. So to use that as the measuring stick is silly. Second usually February tends to be our snowiest month. 3rd this is a strong El Niño. Most of. This years are back loaded winters.

quote="nutleyblizzard"]All this negative talk is starting to get ridiculous. We’re 6 days into winter for Christ’s sake. You would think it’s never going to snow again. Trust me it will . I’ve lived through the 1980’s.

These are good points and feedback. I'm not analyzing enso state or anything other than the raw numbers. However, Central Park is a good representation imo of the local coastal plain.  I can run numbers for AC, new Brunswick, Trenton and they'll show similar results.

It's not without precedent, however the odds become dramatically reduced to achieve average or close to average snowfall for the coastal plain in cases where it takes until January to snow. AC in 2021-22 did recently defy that with a monster January and no snowfall prior to that.So we wait and see how it plays out.

I too am familiar with the jersey shore climate. And its correct that the average snowfall before January is probably less than 4'' from ocean county down to Atlantic county. But ill take AC as there are numbers since the 1940s. Since 1940 34 times they have received at least 16'' of snow which is their historical average. Only 8 of those had no measurable snowfall before January.  So essentially > 75% of those years failed to achieve the average. I don't have in your back yard results so your mileage may vary.

[/quote]
Let me be clear I'm a snow weenie at heart. However I'm all also a numbers guy. Sometimes they are at odds with one another. I really do hope first half of January gets us on the board. Would the numbers to fail this winter.

[sroc4]

I’m going to respond to this more later on, maybe even in the morning, but I just gotta say something in light of something that happened to me today. It probably belongs in banter, so feel free to move it, but I think it’s highly relevant to our ongoing debate lol

Today I had a coworker who I’m fairly friendly with, though would still consider him an acquaintance, post on Facebook about how this December has gone weather wise, and how it’s undeniable proof of climate change. If you don’t acknowledge that, then you’re ignorant, and unintelligent. This post doesn’t touch on the topic specifically, and I think most of you know which side of that discussion I fall on, but that is not the point here. After some ponderance, I decided to respond with countering information that I intended to further support later, since I had to go to work. This person also went to school for meteorology, so I was actually looking forward to a legitimate debate in a public forum……

He responded shortly after, and to open his response, he immediately stated that he thinks that my opinion of the topic was severely biased by my political leanings, and went on to discuss a few very broad-brushed points about the topic. When I told him that my politics had absolutely nothing to do with it, and again that I would be responding with further material, he deleted the post entirely shortly thereafter. I’m still dumbfounded by this, and the level of immaturity demonstrated, but I’m posting because of a broader point that I’d like to make to you, Scott, but also to all readers of the forum:

We are clearly in disagreement with our current discussion, and sure, maybe the tone could be (mis)interpreted as a bit heated, but I couldn’t be more thankful to be having this debate, ANY debate, in such a civilized manner. We may end up agreeing to disagree in the end, but the fact that we can do that and carry on to the next topic without any sense of malice or anger is just fantastic. It only makes us better by having to dig in and really get our hands dirty with the science and data, and if one (or both) of us turn out to be wrong, then it’s just another learning opportunity. It’s so great to be able to have a knock down, drag out debate and then still part ways as friends, and I just wanted to highlight how appreciative I am of that. I feel like it’s a quickly dying opportunity no matter where we look anymore, and this seems to be the only place of solace that I have left. So, before going any further, a sincere thank you Scott, and every other member of this forum for supporting and maintaining the environment we have, and the culture of open debate and free thinking, because it’s an increasingly rare find.

Anyway, I wanted to say that and get it off my chest because I felt that it’s fitting to the current situation haha no need to hijack the thread any further, so I’ll revert later with my follow-up and actual response haha

Ray.  First off when I began reading I wasnt quite sure where this was going.  lol.  That said I officially nominate this post for post of the year.  I used to be on many of the other weather forums out there.  And many of them are awesome in their own right.  But I got tired of the nonsense.  And so fortunately for me, Frank gave me an opportunity to join him here many moons ago, and put me in a position where I could help make sure that if you had a point of view regarding the weather, as well as other topics along the way, you were at least able to be heard respectfully.  Now by no means am I perfect, and of course get thins wrong, have my biases, as we all do, surrounding all aspects of life, but to the best of my abilities have tried let anyone's voice be heard so long as it is done in respect of all others, AND so long as its not done just to stir the pot.  You have an opinion on something?  Go ahead and state it.  You may get called out on how you arrived on that opinion and someone may come back at you with their own opinion that differs from yours, but as long as you present your augment based on the information for which led you to believe what you believe and you respect others presentinga counter argument, you will be heard here.  

THIS is why freedom of speech is so important.   To borrow another quote from you ray from your response to TomsRiver: Develop an idea, test that idea, and try to figure out any flaws or issues. If it stands up to the scrutiny, then it continues as theory or if proven fundamentally, law. If not, scratch it, rework it, and start the process of over. But in so many instances, we can’t even get to the testing phase because it gets essentially shut down.

If you cant challenge an idea, or challenge the consensus, then you NEVER get any further.  Quick story.  Many moons ago back in vet school I had a professor, Dr B who was a surgeon.  Huge intimidating man.  6' 4' ish, 300lbs, hands the size of catchers mitts; yet had the finest touch when he was in the OR.  I was on my surgery block.  I dont remember the details that were in question, but during a lecture he discussed a topic that when I went back to study, there was an aspect of it that didn't make sense to me.   I didn't agree with what he was saying was the truth based on everything I knew at the time, which was of course was limited.  So at our next wet lab which was more one on one, when Dr B came over to me and my two lab partners I challenged him about the prev lecture.  I said Dr B in lecture you said this and this and I have to say I dont necessarily agree with you.  We went back and forth a bit and I did my best to convey to him why I thought this certain aspect of what he had taught us may not be correct.  He very respectfully said at the end that for now we will have to just disagree, but when it comes to the mid terms if you want full marks you better know it the way I taught you.  We laughed and carried on.  My one lab partner was ddiscusted by the exchange.  She couldnt believe that a student would even dare challenge a profferssor like that.  She turned to me and literally said "You are so arrogant".  I believe the next lecture we had Dr B opened with..The other day one of you challenged an idea that I had prev presented.  I immediately was like oh shit what's about to happen?  But he went on to say something along the lines of "No matter what I or any of your other professors tell you, and no matter what you read or learn from specialists like me throughout your career, NEVER EVER take it as gospel.  I am only presenting to you what we think we know based on the best information we have right now.  But inevitably it will be someone who comes along with an idea that challenges the norm or the accepted that we will be able to advance our understanding further.  Right or wrong in his ideas, kudos for that student for challenging me". 

While the exact speech he gave in the lecture was paraphrased, Ill never forget that last line.  I've tried my best throughout my career to cont to do that very thing.  I study what is said to be the truth.  I also look for information that contradicts that truth and see if the contradiction makes sense to me.  If it does Ill explore further.  I do the same thing in here with analysis of the weather.  I am no meteorologist.  I am no climate scientists by any means.  Who the hell am I to challenge what someone like Ray says who does have the degree?  Well even though I dont have that degree Ive been studying this stuff as objectively, and subjectively as I can for well over 2 decades, and I dont care who you are or what your title.  If something does not make sense to me I am going to challenge it, right or wrong on my part, but I will do so with the supporting data as I understand it.  This is likely perceived by some as arrogant.  So be it.  Those who know me know I am as humble as it comes.  Ill concede that at times my stubbornness can supersede my humbleness and I end up dying on an idea, ie: it will snow before the end of the year.  lol  But Like Ray says when I get challenged it forces me to dig in and explore what I think I know and hold it up against the challenging idea and the data that supports it.  I am more than willing to allow my understanding of something to evolve because I am willing to at least listen to the counter argument.  This individual on facebook who simply deleted the entire discussion from Ray is a microcosm of the problem of the world we live in.  This guy was so triggered by an opposing opinion that he deleted it.  Only way to describe that is "pathetic".  To even allow a hint of an opposing view into the mind of some of these man kind is 100% the cause of global warming, is so triggering, so upending to their entire world, that they'd rather delete it and put their head in the sand, then to allow the opposing view to be heard, scrutinized, and incorporated into the big picture.  A child putting their fingers in their ears and saying "la la la la" so they dont have to hear their parent call them out on something is what comes to mind when hearing that story.  

Regarding climate change do not close your mind off to the idea that man made is the only explanation.  "Climate change" has been and conts to occur for billions of years.  Man plays a role in todays climate, but the understanding of how things like the sun, and underwater volcanic activity is only now coming to light to name a few.  Again there is data to support the claim that there is more than just man made CO2 as the cause.  The full extent of which is what's debatable.  There are powerful people and entities in this world who stand to lose both massive amts of wealth and power if an opposing view to the 100% man made global warming narrative is allowed to get challenged.  That is fact.  

On occasion some of these contradicting ideas will get discussed in here.  If or when they do I and the other mods will make sure that they remain respectful and in the appropriate threads as to not take away from our weather discussion, but if this triggers you then go somewhere else.  If you cant even listen to a discussion about this topic without being triggered or feel uncomfortable, then don't read it.  Its time we allow ourselves to objectively listen to counter arguments to current beliefs, and let the best ideas win instead of running away from them and residing in our echo chambers where progress remains stagnant.  

On that note....

[dkodgis]

Post of the year is right. This board shows its depth and integrity in discussion. We add to the topic, what we post moves it along. As some have noted the big thing specifically and some implicitly with their content, civility reigns. What a wonderful board 'tis.

When I came here 25 years ago from near Cape May, I used to be able to say "What winter?". Sure a few came and went but I was never used to seeing snow. Even if it snowed, it melted fast. No one ever needed snow tires. Coming here 25 years ago I was in another world, a winter playland. I had to buy snow tires on all "four" tires (unheard of!) and get me a pair of Cardharrts. A hat? Never wore one. Here, I had to. Ice scaking? Unheard of until I came here. Ice fishing? First I saw and did it was here in Orange County. A snow blower, a generator (two actually), and a wood stove and wood splitter, a tractor, and all that...here. It pains me to see how winter has imploded here but I wondered at the numbers. Most everywhere, it seems worse. We bucked it a bit but the trend is warmer with less snow, and snow backended. I remember storms coming on Dec 1, 8 the first couple of years, that potent ice storm in 2001, the two, 2.5 ft snow storms. I thought I was in Siberia. Friends in Atlantic and Cape May counties tell me things are so different there now too. Things are different now everywhere, here where I live I notice the most. If the snow comes and it will, I am ready to enjoy it. If it does not, the weather is in the hands of someone or something else. I get to go along with the ride.

And now, here is one. In most languages, the word "Time" and "Weather" are the same word. Not time on the clock but the abstract now (Father Time (talking about Doc here), Time flies, etc.). Is weather abstract? I think so. We all know what it means; it is the same for all of us yet different just as our perceptions of time. The same yet different. We see the similiarities and differences up on this board and we make things work. Hell, they work better sometimes that my snowblower which is why I had to get a new one. No new board for me!

[HectorO]

I really don’t get it. 1st off the one person is just using stats from Central Park. Many of us on the board don’t live at or near Central Park. So to use that as the measuring stick is silly. Second usually February tends to be our snowiest month. 3rd this is a strong El Niño. Most of. This years are back loaded winters.

quote="nutleyblizzard"]All this negative talk is starting to get ridiculous. We’re 6 days into winter for Christ’s sake. You would think it’s never going to snow again. Trust me it will . I’ve lived through the 1980’s.

[/quote]

Honestly, I think you can only work with what you've been given. In the past couple years just don't add up to good winters. Comments like this are common every year. Only 6 days in, its only January, February we'll get the pattern change, March can still produce, etc, etc, next thing you know the season is over.


And outside of snow, much of the conversation hasn't only been about snow accumulation over the years, but it's actually been about the inability to sustain even cold temperatures during winter. We get a cold day, and by cold I mean average temperature, and then the next 4 days or 5 days are in the 50s.

Sure, a white Christmas is rare for many people, but a cold Christmas would even be nice at this point.

[Irish]

https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/age-man-enter-anthropocene/

Climate change is surely happening and it just cannot be ignored that we humans are the greatest cause of the damage being done and because of the selfish decisions we have and continue to make for our own needs. There is no other time in history that we can look back on and compare to in terms of the activities that we have engage in over the last 200 years... none. This is a first time and the results are just starting to be felt and the full effects will not be seen until we are long gone.

[phil155]

I guess if there is agreement on man made climate change the real question is what do we as a society do about it and what is the cost and would we really get the biggest polluters to go along with it. My honest opinion is that the biggest polluters are not going to stop. Does anyone really believe they are going to stop polluting at the levels they are? I think they will increase if it makes economic sense for them

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