Re: Snow Measurements 01/04/18 Blizzard

by **docstox12** Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:05 pm

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:
docstox12 wrote:Agree 100%.I have a 97 year old Mom in Fort Lee, and losing power would be rough.I don't mind 25 mph gusts in a snowstorm but the best snow rate I ever saw when I lived in Mahwah NJ was the February 1983 snowstorm with 3 inch rates for 6 hours straight without any let ups.There was very little wind on that.Wound up with 20 inches on that one.No drifts at all.

Good points all.

Another thing I was made aware of recently is how high winds are a negative to the snow ratios. Most people assume cold temperatures are all that affects ratios but apparently there is a lot more that goes into it than most layman like myself realize. Apparently something it does to the density of the flakes as they fall makes it not accumulate at the same rate as it would through a calmer atmosphere. Another reason not to be a fan of the high winds. Jman??

I wonder if any of our experts here like Ryan (ace), Frank, RB, Sroc, Mugs etc could verify if that is true. Even Isotherm should he be lurking I'm sure would know the answer, he might just explain it in a way that I don't understand . JK Isotherm you are da man.

Excellent observation CP, about wind affecting the density of the flakes! This storm there was so much wind, the snow appeared to be like powdered sugar!

by **NjWeatherGuy** Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:00 am

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:
docstox12 wrote:Agree 100%.I have a 97 year old Mom in Fort Lee, and losing power would be rough.I don't mind 25 mph gusts in a snowstorm but the best snow rate I ever saw when I lived in Mahwah 7 NJ was the February 1983 snowstorm with 3 inch rates for 6 hours straight without any let ups.There was very little wind on that.Wound up with 20 inches on that one.No drifts at all.

Good points all.

Another thing I was made aware of recently is how high winds are a negative to the snow ratios. Most people assume cold temperatures are all that affects ratios but apparently there is a lot more that goes into it than most layman like myself realize. Apparently something it does to the density of the flakes as they fall makes it not accumulate at the same rate as it would through a calmer atmosphere. Another reason not to be a fan of the high winds. Jman??

I wonder if any of our experts here like Ryan (ace), Frank, RB, Sroc, Mugs etc could verify if that is true. Even Isotherm should he be lurking I'm sure would know the answer, he might just explain it in a way that I don't understand . JK Isotherm you are da man.

Correct, high winds cause the flakes to remain smaller and not pile onto eachother enhancing snow growth. Some of the heaviest snow I remember recently was January 10, 2010, not an incredibly windy storm, but it was a complete whiteout from massive flakes falling extremely heavily. That storm actually began as light rain I believe too.

by **sroc4** Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:19 am

NjWeatherGuy wrote:
CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:
docstox12 wrote:Agree 100%.I have a 97 year old Mom in Fort Lee, and losing power would be rough.I don't mind 25 mph gusts in a snowstorm but the best snow rate I ever saw when I lived in Mahwah 7 NJ was the February 1983 snowstorm with 3 inch rates for 6 hours straight without any let ups.There was very little wind on that.Wound up with 20 inches on that one.No drifts at all.

Good points all.

Another thing I was made aware of recently is how high winds are a negative to the snow ratios. Most people assume cold temperatures are all that affects ratios but apparently there is a lot more that goes into it than most layman like myself realize. Apparently something it does to the density of the flakes as they fall makes it not accumulate at the same rate as it would through a calmer atmosphere. Another reason not to be a fan of the high winds. Jman??

I wonder if any of our experts here like Ryan (ace), Frank, RB, Sroc, Mugs etc could verify if that is true. Even Isotherm should he be lurking I'm sure would know the answer, he might just explain it in a way that I don't understand . JK Isotherm you are da man.

Correct, high winds cause the flakes to remain smaller and not pile onto eachother enhancing snow growth. Some of the heaviest snow I remember recently was January 10, 2010, not an incredibly windy storm, but it was a complete whiteout from massive flakes falling extremely heavily. That storm actually began as light rain I believe too.

Exactly. Very simply stated when its really windy during a snow storm the flakes have a tendency to fracture causing the ratio to be less than in calmer conditions. Think about a bag of Doritos. Cool Ranch are my favorite. When the majority of the chips are intact it fills the bag. If you were to crumble them up there would be less air in between and they would condense or stack more tightly together at the bottom of the bag making it seem "less full" even though its still the same amount of Doritos.

Of course Nacho cheese are always a classic, but Sweet Chili is also a great change of pace.

by **Quietace** Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:56 pm

sroc4 wrote:
NjWeatherGuy wrote:
CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:
docstox12 wrote:Agree 100%.I have a 97 year old Mom in Fort Lee, and losing power would be rough.I don't mind 25 mph gusts in a snowstorm but the best snow rate I ever saw when I lived in Mahwah 7 NJ was the February 1983 snowstorm with 3 inch rates for 6 hours straight without any let ups.There was very little wind on that.Wound up with 20 inches on that one.No drifts at all.

Good points all.

Another thing I was made aware of recently is how high winds are a negative to the snow ratios. Most people assume cold temperatures are all that affects ratios but apparently there is a lot more that goes into it than most layman like myself realize. Apparently something it does to the density of the flakes as they fall makes it not accumulate at the same rate as it would through a calmer atmosphere. Another reason not to be a fan of the high winds. Jman??

I wonder if any of our experts here like Ryan (ace), Frank, RB, Sroc, Mugs etc could verify if that is true. Even Isotherm should he be lurking I'm sure would know the answer, he might just explain it in a way that I don't understand . JK Isotherm you are da man.

Correct, high winds cause the flakes to remain smaller and not pile onto eachother enhancing snow growth. Some of the heaviest snow I remember recently was January 10, 2010, not an incredibly windy storm, but it was a complete whiteout from massive flakes falling extremely heavily. That storm actually began as light rain I believe too.

Exactly. Very simply stated when its really windy during a snow storm the flakes have a tendency to fracture causing the ratio to be less than in calmer conditions. Think about a bag of Doritos. Cool Ranch are my favorite. When the majority of the chips are intact it fills the bag. If you were to crumble them up there would be less air in between and they would condense or stack more tightly together at the bottom of the bag making it seem "less full" even though its still the same amount of Doritos.

Of course Nacho cheese are always a classic, but Sweet Chili is also a great change of pace.

Ice crystals grow homogeneously or heterogeneously. Crystal structure is determined by SVP values as well as temperature through the column. In terms of ice crystal growth, they can either grow via riming or collision and coalescence (aggregation) with the latter how you get larger flakes. However, aggregation can be limited in scenarios with excessive winds through the snow growth column....

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